Post by Galo on May 21, 2020 7:39:43 GMT -8
An in-depth chat with Von following the blockbuster Alonzo Mourning trade, thoughts on where New Orleans goes from here and his thoughts on life and more!
1. Thanks for doing this Pig. Talk to us about the Zo trade market. You scoured numerous offers but zeroed in on the Celtics but then quickly pivoted to the Godfather 7 pick offer from the Spurs. What happened??
So let's dissect this by team, and then do an overview.
Heat - Ricky Davis +: There really wasn't a + to that I really liked on the Heat roster at the time. I think kobe may or may not of been able to get my 1st from Boston, I want to say no but I would have to look through my previous PM's for confirmation.
Mavs - Jason Kidd/Jo + Hornets pick: Pretty similar to the Heat deal in setup. I am not sure acquiring Kidd makes sense in this situation if I am dealing Zo especially with my belief that Kidd didn't really have a robust market to begin with. I don't hate JO but I wasn't wild about him.
Celtics - Bibby + Hornets Pick: - This was kind of all over the place but initially the offer was Bibby + Pick for Zo. That was originally rejected. Lasagna and tears of failure came back a couple days later and said he was willing to do the trade but my mind was in a different place at the time.
Let's take these three deals and discuss my mindset.
So if I take I need to try and properly gauge A.) What assets I have remaining that can create further value. B.) Where I believe I would be in the standings at the end of the year. C.) What the strength of the draft class is.
A.) I literally had no other assets that anyone else inquired about. Not Stackhouse. Not my futures. Nothing. I still think my Hornets 03 + 04 block still has zero replies on it. Wolves were the only team that inquired about them.
B.) I have me right now at about the 6th or 7th worst team in the league. I don't think I am going to out tank Andrew , Go Niners or Losanglife , which is important for the next point.
C.) This draft class on paper seems incredibly weak outside of Yao and Amare. Boozer should be good, but what's the value on big men that can't play defense? Caron? There seems to be a surplus of good wings everywhere. J Will could be good but he's a crap shoot. So if I don't think I can get a generational talent, why do I really give a shit about my pick in the long run? Especially as other GM's are using it as a major chip to bargain with.
So with all of this in mind I am essentially looking at a deal in my mind of Zo for Davis, JO/Kidd, Bibby and Dunleavy/JWill/Arvydas or equivalent for Zo. I don't love the value here. Now if I fully want to tank to get Yao or Amare, I need to dish off one of those guys to get to that point. What are these guys going to get me at the end of the day? More picks? What rebuilding team would want to trade their young guys from the only draft in this league thus far for other young guys who are on shorter duration contracts up to 3/4x the cost of the guys they just drafted? It's a huge liability to go into a creation draft and get young, developmental types who are going to eat up to 5x of the salary per year compared to that of a guy who you would get in a rookie draft. I firmly believe if you decide you're going to rebuild from the start, ship all your creation draft picks off and tank the right way while obtaining futures with your creation picks.
Other deals I considered were:
Memphis/Erbes - Ratliff + Rose: It took Erbes a while to get to this point. He originally wanted Stackhouse included in this deal, then switched Ratliff to MacCollugh, then posted a block saying there were only two people in the league he would do Ratliff and Rose for before formally offering it to me, and then he finally offered it to me. I thought this was better value than the aforementioned three teams. I thought this deal may (but wasn't sold) make my team better, I didn't believe it would make me a contender. I also think it would make Memphis a juggernaut and the team to beat in BBS. That doesn't help me win a title. This was the deal I valued the most though.
Deals I offered:
Utah: I tried to pry both Robinson's from Utah for Zo + making a fair point about Admiral retiring and how whatever championship window he had would be strengthened with Zo+Houston rather than GRob+Houston in case of DRob retiring. This would let me legitimate compete for a year before a rebuild. I haven't dealt with JR before so I am not sure how he works or thinks, but I thought based on the dialogue that he at least thought about it.
Other deals I didn't really take a serious look at outside something Royal proposed which was a weaker version of what I proposed to Utah.
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It's going to take a while for Zo to get used to San Antonio
2. Did you think the value you got for Zo was fair? If so, why do you think there was a bunch of blow back?
Me and @ukfanjohn had a minimal exchange about the terms of the deal, small items but it was pretty cut and clear for me that this was great value. How many 31 year olds on 2 year contracts command 7 draft picks? I felt the value that I received here outweighed the value of my own pick. I wouldn't of done it if I didn't think it was fair.
For some reason in this version of BBS, draft picks are carrying very little value. I think there is belief that if a team doesn't have their draft pick that they are going to try to win and therefore there pick is worthless. I think GM's go after picks based off on perceived ability of other GM's rather than quantity. I believe both those points hold merit, however the devaluation is unwarranted. Dan made a great point today when he said "things are consistently changing". I think quantity has value especially if you're stacking teams picks in 2-3 year intervals. 3/4 of this league will be expiring in the next two years. the original michael is in a great place right now with what he has done.
The blow back was mostly from kobe so I am not really that worried about that.
3. Pig, you initially wanted to retool post-Zo but now it's a rebuild. What made you change your mind on direction?
I am here to win titles. It was evident I couldn't do that with the current team and it was evident that I didn't have the assets to get better to that point. I also was hedging that Zo needed to be dealt ASAP as a 32 year old expiring contract would command significantly less value.
4. What are you looking for in upcoming draft picks? Any prospects you're fond of in 2003 and beyond?
I don't know right now? Spurs obviously became a lot better. Are the Mavericks any good? Are the Timberwolves any good? Are both these teams going to make the playoffs? Should I just ship all my useful depth cheap over to manasrai and Seattle GM 13rock ? Nanz doesn't have any of his picks so maybe he want's my scraps? I think @aaronjh has assets to have a really strong team but I think it would take dealing Parker which I believe he is reluctant to do. Kobe has been blasting me with all these "shitty picks" but what is the drop off from the 6-7 range to 13-15 this year? One of Dallas or Minnesota will be in that area unless they start making more deals......I think.
I'll get some role players in this draft, hope I get lucky (I have to get lucky with one of these 7 picks) and take max cap space into next year and tank for Lebron, Wade, Melo, Bosh, etc.
Will the Hornets get lucky in the upcoming Lottos?
5. You started with a strong front line of Zo, Malone and Mason. Do you like inside teams? What's a Pig recipe for success in BBS?
Outside, Fast Pace is my preference. The team last year was abstract for me, we were probably last in the league or close to it in 3PA running a balanced offense. I don't think I ran an inside orientated offense at all last year because I thought Stack was massively inflated with jumping. In retrospect that was probably stupid as well as not having Mason play SF and Malone play PF. I'm historically a very good DC guy but I was pretty bad last year with it.
6. How do you feel about the current climate in BBS? Any connections with some of the newer GMs?
Outside the fact that he likes Alabama Kobe is a fave GM of mine but today his "opinions" crossed over a certain threshold where I felt I needed to respond in kind. Hopefully we go back to being amicable tomorrow! If Brian drinks likes he sends PM's I think we would have a wonderful night on the town.
7. How do you like living in Nashville? What's a typical day in the life for you now?
I love Nashville, been here about 5 years now. In the pre-COVID world I traveled almost every week of the month so it's been quite a change working at home the last couple of months of home and not being at an airport. I have flown on about 125-135 flights per year the last couple of years and it takes it's toll. I am Hilton Diamond through 2022.
I am not the party guy I used to be earlier, kind of lost my stride over the last couple years. I do like to get out on the town once and a while but my hangovers last 2-3 days if I hit it hard.
When I am not working I play a shitload of golf. I belong to club here where they host the Korn Ferry Nashville Open. Probably the toughest 1st hole in the United States. Been playing a little bit of cards online here or there but the process in pulling out money is a little ridiculous and makes it almost not worth it.
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Pig calls the Music City home
8. What's the relationship like now with the crew from New Canaan (@aaronjh - Mavs, Orlando Magic Johnson - Blazers, Nanz - Lakers) now that everyone is grown up and doing their things? Are yall still close?
Unfortunately not really for myself, those guys all are. Most my closest friendships are with people I went to college with and here I have made Nashville. I was thinking about it the other day and I am not really sure when the last time I saw Aaron was. I have seen Nanz in the last 5 years I believe in NYC. Dan came down to Nashville before the pandemic and we had a grand ole time on the town. I chat with Mark every once in a while about UFC and celebrities I see in the airport (don't ask).
9. What motivated to join BBS2020 aside from the pandemic? Any unfinished business? Did you need to see what another Spencer league felt like?
Pretty much the pandemic and I was bored. Won't lie.
10. You've won 2 titles in previous versions of BBS. Do you think you'll get back there and prove all the haters around the league wrong?
Well I have won a bit more. We are only tracking BBS 4 + 5 but I had several in BBS 2 + 3.
There's certain nuances and adjustments that you need to make year to year though to adjust with how other GM's approach things. I am sure I'll have something competitive soon.
1. Thanks for doing this Pig. Talk to us about the Zo trade market. You scoured numerous offers but zeroed in on the Celtics but then quickly pivoted to the Godfather 7 pick offer from the Spurs. What happened??
So let's dissect this by team, and then do an overview.
Heat - Ricky Davis +: There really wasn't a + to that I really liked on the Heat roster at the time. I think kobe may or may not of been able to get my 1st from Boston, I want to say no but I would have to look through my previous PM's for confirmation.
Mavs - Jason Kidd/Jo + Hornets pick: Pretty similar to the Heat deal in setup. I am not sure acquiring Kidd makes sense in this situation if I am dealing Zo especially with my belief that Kidd didn't really have a robust market to begin with. I don't hate JO but I wasn't wild about him.
Celtics - Bibby + Hornets Pick: - This was kind of all over the place but initially the offer was Bibby + Pick for Zo. That was originally rejected. Lasagna and tears of failure came back a couple days later and said he was willing to do the trade but my mind was in a different place at the time.
Let's take these three deals and discuss my mindset.
So if I take I need to try and properly gauge A.) What assets I have remaining that can create further value. B.) Where I believe I would be in the standings at the end of the year. C.) What the strength of the draft class is.
A.) I literally had no other assets that anyone else inquired about. Not Stackhouse. Not my futures. Nothing. I still think my Hornets 03 + 04 block still has zero replies on it. Wolves were the only team that inquired about them.
B.) I have me right now at about the 6th or 7th worst team in the league. I don't think I am going to out tank Andrew , Go Niners or Losanglife , which is important for the next point.
C.) This draft class on paper seems incredibly weak outside of Yao and Amare. Boozer should be good, but what's the value on big men that can't play defense? Caron? There seems to be a surplus of good wings everywhere. J Will could be good but he's a crap shoot. So if I don't think I can get a generational talent, why do I really give a shit about my pick in the long run? Especially as other GM's are using it as a major chip to bargain with.
So with all of this in mind I am essentially looking at a deal in my mind of Zo for Davis, JO/Kidd, Bibby and Dunleavy/JWill/Arvydas or equivalent for Zo. I don't love the value here. Now if I fully want to tank to get Yao or Amare, I need to dish off one of those guys to get to that point. What are these guys going to get me at the end of the day? More picks? What rebuilding team would want to trade their young guys from the only draft in this league thus far for other young guys who are on shorter duration contracts up to 3/4x the cost of the guys they just drafted? It's a huge liability to go into a creation draft and get young, developmental types who are going to eat up to 5x of the salary per year compared to that of a guy who you would get in a rookie draft. I firmly believe if you decide you're going to rebuild from the start, ship all your creation draft picks off and tank the right way while obtaining futures with your creation picks.
Other deals I considered were:
Memphis/Erbes - Ratliff + Rose: It took Erbes a while to get to this point. He originally wanted Stackhouse included in this deal, then switched Ratliff to MacCollugh, then posted a block saying there were only two people in the league he would do Ratliff and Rose for before formally offering it to me, and then he finally offered it to me. I thought this was better value than the aforementioned three teams. I thought this deal may (but wasn't sold) make my team better, I didn't believe it would make me a contender. I also think it would make Memphis a juggernaut and the team to beat in BBS. That doesn't help me win a title. This was the deal I valued the most though.
Deals I offered:
Utah: I tried to pry both Robinson's from Utah for Zo + making a fair point about Admiral retiring and how whatever championship window he had would be strengthened with Zo+Houston rather than GRob+Houston in case of DRob retiring. This would let me legitimate compete for a year before a rebuild. I haven't dealt with JR before so I am not sure how he works or thinks, but I thought based on the dialogue that he at least thought about it.
Other deals I didn't really take a serious look at outside something Royal proposed which was a weaker version of what I proposed to Utah.
It's going to take a while for Zo to get used to San Antonio
2. Did you think the value you got for Zo was fair? If so, why do you think there was a bunch of blow back?
Me and @ukfanjohn had a minimal exchange about the terms of the deal, small items but it was pretty cut and clear for me that this was great value. How many 31 year olds on 2 year contracts command 7 draft picks? I felt the value that I received here outweighed the value of my own pick. I wouldn't of done it if I didn't think it was fair.
For some reason in this version of BBS, draft picks are carrying very little value. I think there is belief that if a team doesn't have their draft pick that they are going to try to win and therefore there pick is worthless. I think GM's go after picks based off on perceived ability of other GM's rather than quantity. I believe both those points hold merit, however the devaluation is unwarranted. Dan made a great point today when he said "things are consistently changing". I think quantity has value especially if you're stacking teams picks in 2-3 year intervals. 3/4 of this league will be expiring in the next two years. the original michael is in a great place right now with what he has done.
The blow back was mostly from kobe so I am not really that worried about that.
3. Pig, you initially wanted to retool post-Zo but now it's a rebuild. What made you change your mind on direction?
I am here to win titles. It was evident I couldn't do that with the current team and it was evident that I didn't have the assets to get better to that point. I also was hedging that Zo needed to be dealt ASAP as a 32 year old expiring contract would command significantly less value.
4. What are you looking for in upcoming draft picks? Any prospects you're fond of in 2003 and beyond?
I don't know right now? Spurs obviously became a lot better. Are the Mavericks any good? Are the Timberwolves any good? Are both these teams going to make the playoffs? Should I just ship all my useful depth cheap over to manasrai and Seattle GM 13rock ? Nanz doesn't have any of his picks so maybe he want's my scraps? I think @aaronjh has assets to have a really strong team but I think it would take dealing Parker which I believe he is reluctant to do. Kobe has been blasting me with all these "shitty picks" but what is the drop off from the 6-7 range to 13-15 this year? One of Dallas or Minnesota will be in that area unless they start making more deals......I think.
I'll get some role players in this draft, hope I get lucky (I have to get lucky with one of these 7 picks) and take max cap space into next year and tank for Lebron, Wade, Melo, Bosh, etc.
Will the Hornets get lucky in the upcoming Lottos?
5. You started with a strong front line of Zo, Malone and Mason. Do you like inside teams? What's a Pig recipe for success in BBS?
Outside, Fast Pace is my preference. The team last year was abstract for me, we were probably last in the league or close to it in 3PA running a balanced offense. I don't think I ran an inside orientated offense at all last year because I thought Stack was massively inflated with jumping. In retrospect that was probably stupid as well as not having Mason play SF and Malone play PF. I'm historically a very good DC guy but I was pretty bad last year with it.
6. How do you feel about the current climate in BBS? Any connections with some of the newer GMs?
Outside the fact that he likes Alabama Kobe is a fave GM of mine but today his "opinions" crossed over a certain threshold where I felt I needed to respond in kind. Hopefully we go back to being amicable tomorrow! If Brian drinks likes he sends PM's I think we would have a wonderful night on the town.
7. How do you like living in Nashville? What's a typical day in the life for you now?
I love Nashville, been here about 5 years now. In the pre-COVID world I traveled almost every week of the month so it's been quite a change working at home the last couple of months of home and not being at an airport. I have flown on about 125-135 flights per year the last couple of years and it takes it's toll. I am Hilton Diamond through 2022.
I am not the party guy I used to be earlier, kind of lost my stride over the last couple years. I do like to get out on the town once and a while but my hangovers last 2-3 days if I hit it hard.
When I am not working I play a shitload of golf. I belong to club here where they host the Korn Ferry Nashville Open. Probably the toughest 1st hole in the United States. Been playing a little bit of cards online here or there but the process in pulling out money is a little ridiculous and makes it almost not worth it.
Pig calls the Music City home
8. What's the relationship like now with the crew from New Canaan (@aaronjh - Mavs, Orlando Magic Johnson - Blazers, Nanz - Lakers) now that everyone is grown up and doing their things? Are yall still close?
Unfortunately not really for myself, those guys all are. Most my closest friendships are with people I went to college with and here I have made Nashville. I was thinking about it the other day and I am not really sure when the last time I saw Aaron was. I have seen Nanz in the last 5 years I believe in NYC. Dan came down to Nashville before the pandemic and we had a grand ole time on the town. I chat with Mark every once in a while about UFC and celebrities I see in the airport (don't ask).
9. What motivated to join BBS2020 aside from the pandemic? Any unfinished business? Did you need to see what another Spencer league felt like?
Pretty much the pandemic and I was bored. Won't lie.
10. You've won 2 titles in previous versions of BBS. Do you think you'll get back there and prove all the haters around the league wrong?
Well I have won a bit more. We are only tracking BBS 4 + 5 but I had several in BBS 2 + 3.
There's certain nuances and adjustments that you need to make year to year though to adjust with how other GM's approach things. I am sure I'll have something competitive soon.
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