Post by Mark on Aug 6, 2020 11:40:36 GMT -8
Sup fellas! RT take two, after the last one got wiped out! These boyos sent me their responses last night so some of this could be a little stale, but it's not really. Still some good stuff in here. footy , I hope you are impressed with my formatting! And if not, oh well! Onto the answer...
1. What has been the biggest issue that CY teams have had in fielding a competitive roster with a decent window?
Pig: Different for every team. Let’s just say that the teams that were CY’d didn’t have strong GM’s for all intents and purposes of discussion. Seattles GM was interested in other things outside of fielding a competitive team. Styro wasn’t active. Chipper made bad deals and gave bad contracts. Orlando did not carry the level of FBB knowledge that he needed to be successful.
Activity is the number one denominator. Terrible contracts are number 2. If you start giving out albatross contracts to guys that don’t deserve it to force something you will fail. I also think it’s pretty advantageous to carry a plethora of 1st’s on you for 30-35 year old guys to help you out if need be.
Steve: I think the biggest issue is some of them have jumped the gun a year ahead and have accumulated assets that haven’t helped protect their most important asset (their draft pick). I think, for most, it truly has been jumping the gun. You know, in a way, I can totally relate. I won the Yao Ming sweepstakes. In year 2, I was picking between 9-11 (I can’t remember) and was kind of annoyed by that. So I packaged some assets for C-Webb. Looking back, I HATE that deal now. I should’ve been much more patient when trading for a star that also fits my group and direction. I think the idea of making sure you have good players on your roster supersedes the idea of fit. I think fit is such an important part of how you build a team. Skillz/Habes are some of the best at accomplishing that narrative. The reality of the situation is that sometimes you might not get lucky in lotto to gain a championship window so you just need to be smart, reset, and try it all over again as demoralizing as that concept can truly be.
Ashes: I think it's just been reliance on the draft and youth development then sitting on that for too long. Not everyone can get slam dunks like Chris Paul! I think a lot of CY teams have had rough timing with their moves or decisions to start winning. I think knowing when to hold youth and when to move them is very crucial in FBB, not just for CY teams, but it always seems like CY teams sit a little too long then have to take a lesser deal their last year. It always seems like every team in the conference wants to win when a CY team tries. I hate waiting until the final year to make it. I think it results in a lot of desperation or poor value trades that just leave the franchise bad no matter if they make it or not. Warriors tanked for 3 seasons, won 44 games, and are now back on the tank. Depressing stuff!
Mark: Fear of the Contract Year and moving too quickly as a result. I thought that both Jeff and Manas moved too quickly, albeit it in different ways. Jeff could have tanked through year three. Manas moved too quickly in adding the secondary pieces (Toine), when those types will always be there and should round out your roster, not be there from the start (also makes it less likely that they’ll be an imperfect fit, as Toine became). I think everyone needs to have a little more faith in themselves, and if not in themselves, then have faith in the pace of the league. The deals will be there. Get as many assets as you can. You don’t need to make a deal a week too soon for fear of being left holding the bag. You won’t. We are obsessed with this. People will trade.
(Jeff is definitely making his CY though and took too much shit IMO. He could have been more patient, but people started acting like he had shit on his team, and I don’t think that’s true)
2. What are your thoughts on the value placed on a team’s own picks? Who holds the power in these negotiations, the team with the pick, or the team who wants it back (but is good enough that he doesn’t need it back)?
Pig: It’s almost always contingent on how good the team wanting it back is perceived to be. The pendulum of power will always swing based on that fact. Make sure that your team is competitive before you want to start you rebuild and you will hold the power to an extent.
Steve: Depends on what your team exactly looks like in that manner. We all have pretty good experiences with this. I wasn’t harsh when I owned Jeff’s pick because I didn’t want to hold his pick hostage, and I eventually traded it for Andre Miller. Looking back on that, I should’ve kept it. But I also was being nice and didn’t want to hold his pick hostage...but I should’ve gotten a better PG back in a deal. Through recent experiences, I’m not going to be giving any more favors with a team that wants their pick back.
When I switch the roles around, and Habes had my pick...it was an alright process. Basically was up front and told me he only wanted Billups or Nenad. I told him Nenad would have to be maxed so he wanted one of my interesting 1sts and we eventually settled on one. I think it depends on who you are dealing with, but I think the team that has your pick ultimately controls the value.
Ashes: Well if the team is good enough that he doesn't need the pick back, then it would seem the pick has little value. I've never cared about my own pick. It really depends on the GM though. There are the guys who will tear it all down just to get their picks back, and that's a fine approach. Let's them control their destiny and try to tank the best they can. I've had a few guys over the years reach out to me with my picks, and as long as I don't own my pick, it's basically worthless. I'd say in general, and for me, the team that wants the pick back will have more power in negotiations, assuming they are competent and have a good squad. But it's very clear that for some guys, the opposite is true. I think it's all about philosophies baby!
Mark: Loved my original answer before I fucking refreshed proboards and lost it. Of course it depends on how good the team is, but typically, I don’t think the team that wants their pick back has as much leverage as they want to think. Yes, that team can turn the pick into a late lotto, but that’s in no one’s best interest. Finding a middle ground is the play, and I think we go through the same song and dance every time trying to pretend that one holds the power over the other. We all know you want your pick back, and we also all know that the pick isn’t top 3 unless the guy tanks with it. Fine. These are win win trades and should be treated as such.
3. What has been your favorite part of BBS 2020? Least favorite part?
Pig: For me, I am looking at things in a whole new light and much more in depth than I had ever did a decade ago. Studying individual player shooting volume for example was way outside the scope of the time I wanted to put in 10 years ago. I am having a blast this iteration and trying to be more of a student that in previous years. That’s fun for me.
The least favorite part for me is how limited FBB is. I think we would have much more fun if we tried to figure out the more in-depth program that allows us more flexibility in controlling our teams.
Steve: I feel like I’ve answered this before, but the overall activity and comradery is second to none in this league. It’s what separates this league from probably most. My least favorite part might be sometimes the pace of BBS is too much while i’m at work and i need to get shit done. I’m not working from home currently so it’s not as easy to divert my attention to the league like most.
Ashes: Just everyone getting back together again for this crazy old thing. It’s been a blast and the activity is stellar. Spencer is a beast as usual. In a way COVID brought us all together and made something beautiful! Least favorite? Hmm, that’s tough. Wait, no it isn’t! 5 Day Sims damnit! Get rid of them!!
Mark: The forum. I can’t believe we hit the ground running like this after a decade. I absolutely love sitting on the boards and passing time. Legit valuable during quarantine. My concern is it won’t last once we go back to normal in 2021, but we’ll deal with that when the time comes. For now, it’s amazing.
4. Take over any team in your division, your choice. What would you do if you were that GM today (assume that you’re in the same CY position they are, if that matters, i.e. if you take over Memphis, you’re still in Year 4)
Pig: I’ll take over Atlanta because I am not wild about him trying to tank again, nor do I think he really needs to. For some reason I have Shawn Marion on the team while I am still trying to tank (looking for that deal now).
(Found the deal). Footy tends to make deals where he is going to bring on someone that makes sense for the price if he believes he can flip for more value even if it’s in contrast to his direction. I am not sure he is going to find a taker in Marion at the value that he believes he can. At this point it’s a flip for EXP’s and a Pick (if we are lucky) or we need to start building some talent.
We don’t touch Bynum or Tucker. Wagner, some of these rookie deals need to be shelled out for a PG/SG but preferably a PG. I do that if Marion is on my roster or is not on my roster. If Marion is on my roster I probably marinate on that team with the PG upgrade and I think we can win 42. Go into next season with some bird exps and load up for the long haul the next season. If he is off the roster, I still try to build with a PG acquisition and go into next season with max cap as possible to continue to build my team.
Steve: I’ll take over Brian’s team. I’d look to reset this year. It’s a weak field, I’d make sure all of my guys are RCd and ACd as much as possible...and really try to make it in because he’s not going to be able to tank this year. There are far too many bad teams in the East, I think. If for whatever reason I wasn’t able to reset, then obviously I would need to do what it would take to reset during the CY year. When I look at Brian’s roster, I’m just not a fan. Pierce’s turnovers are prohibiting him from being a superstar in this league. I’m not going to get into the Antoine Walker talk...we all know what he is. Bogut will be a realllllllyyyy nice big. I think, best case for Livingston is a better defensive version of Andre Miller. I always look at can I win championships with my nucleus and I don’t think Brian can do that with the pieces he currently has. So to summarize, reset this year, and start selling some veterans off (Pierce, Walker, etc.) and look to continue to build through the draft.
Ashes: Lakers. Makes me so sad to see what the Lakers became after they had such a legit threat. I’d tear it all down and get my picks back plus other solid youth. Yes this directly conflicts my answer to question 2 but I hate this team that much! If Melo does nothing in TC, I’m going to feel so bad for my pal Nanz. Wishing you the best!
Mark: This is where I refreshed the page trying to go to standings. Fuckin brutal. Anyway, I’ll take over the Lakers. Nanz doesn’t have his pick until 2009 and he doesn’t have any depth, but he does have a very good SL and should still be able to clear 42+ each of the next two seasons. Typically I’d say just blow it up and tank, but I think he can pull off the CY refresh. I’d move Brand, who looks sick with new ratings, for a vet or two on two year deals. Need to maintain cap for 2009. I’d keep Melo at all costs, because he’s going to be used to get a massive package the offseason before tank year 1. And I’d see if Baron and Eddie can be turned into more manageable contracts that act as depth, without harming the ability to win 42. Then in 2009, you tank with clean cap + whatever you get for Melo + your own picks.
5. What are your thoughts on Pacce’s contract?
PIG: As a player, I don’t mind it at all. I think he has intangibles that require a max if you want him on your team. It’s someone I kind of steer away from (In terms of a MAX) because value seems to be all over the place and I am not sure how hard it would be to move it if he stays the same player over the course of 7 years. I would be very worried about potential though. I wouldn’t want him to die in that contract.
Steve: It’s fine (like most of those contracts are) for now. However, do we really think he’s worth that contract once he enters year 4 of it? I don’t think you can make a legitimate argument that he is worth that.
Ashes: Bad contract. Obviously the only way anyone was signing him was with a max, but like the Griffin and Haslem contracts, they are bad. Yeah I only have two examples right now, big whoop! I think all these contracts are manageable by competent GMs, but they still become restricting no matter what. Just my opinion on it. I wouldn’t offer maxes to them, and I would’ve traded all these players their expiring year. Good idea to sign these guys and immediately flip them though.
Mark: I like Pacce. I think he became a bit of a joke because Skillz oversold him. The contract is pretty far below average but as long as he stays about as good as he is then it’s not a complete killer. His stocks are ridiculous.
6. Who is more likely to get CY’d, Andy or Royal?
Pig: Neither. Touched upon Royal in my Power Rankings don’t think he will be CY’d. Probably Andy if I had to choose but I don’t think he will be either.
Steve: Good question. I think for Andy this is the year to squeak in because of how weak the East is. If he doesn’t, then he could be in trouble. Things change quickly. It’s weird, but I have a feeling Royal is going to make it...but when you look at what he has, I don’t see it. I’d guess Royal is the GM most likely to get CY’d.
Ashes: Royal probably. Not sure, they are both in pretty meh positions. I think Andy could get desperate and get enough for Roy to scrape by. Royal will probably be fine to win 42 at some point in the West, but I think his team is a little worse for wear and always like to grab rando old dudes instead of tanking.
Mark: This question is dumb after Royal’s moves, but I would have said Andy regardless. Andy is a great guy and a good GM. He was dealt a shitty hand. But even with that hand, I honestly hate what he’s done. Accumulate as many assets as possible, tank in 06 and 08, clear the CY, and then reset the rebuild in your own image. I could see him scraping by one of these seasons but it will be tough.
7. Put your Moneyball hat on. What is the most inefficiently priced asset in BBS?
Pig: I think sole shot blockers become inefficient at a certain price point. I don’t think I would be putting Max contract’s on guys who put up 10-10 with 2.5-3BPG.
Steve: I think an inefficient asset is players getting to their 3rd contract. We actually haven’t seen too much of that because the league is only like 6 years young...but the hard cap being set at only $78M is really going to make teams stray away from that 3rd contract type player. Alonzo Mourning is kind of a 3rd contract guy, and those deals get ugly fast. In my other league, it doesn’t matter because there is no hard cap but a luxury tax so the GMs who are active can pay that off...but here? This will be incredibly problematic and something I’ll look to stay away from. I truly believe that in maybe 10 seasons or even 5...guys like Nenad will not be maxed.
Ashes: Yes. Or no. What were you on when you made this question?? Even with the further clarification, I don’t really know what to make of this. People value stuff too high. I’m going with that.
Mark: My original wording on this question was so bad. That’s what Ashes is yammering about above. I’d say the most inefficiently priced asset is any player that the forum mob has deemed shitty but isn’t actually shitty. Groupthink. We hated Andre Iguodala to the point where his value cratered and that was stupid the whole time IMO. Note that I thought this prior to today too fwiw… awk
8. Take away LeBron. If the creation draft was today, who would go 1?
Pig: Kobe. Best player in the league and in his 20’s. Instantly makes any team a title contender from a creation draft standpoint.
Steve: Chris Paul. PG is the most important position in FBB and Paul is 20 years old and already flashed moments of brilliance in his rookie campaign. He’s on another level. Kind of disappointing that Wade isn’t the answer here, but maybe he still has some potential left to fix some of his flaws.
Ashes: Kobe. Maybe Paul after this TC. I think I’d go with some kind of order like LeBron, Kobe, KG, Paul, Duncan. I don’t know for sure I never really put much thought into ranking them, I’m not out there dropping propaganda like Skillz. I’m just going to say Kobe because he is the man.
Mark: Paul. I wouldn’t trade Paul straight up for anyone in BBS other than LeBron.
9. What were your thoughts on the Brandon Roy trade?
Pig: Roy’s a good haul, but I think it severely deprived Andy of assets to deal for other players. I would of liked him to go after a couple players and help form out a strong team rather than go for a rookie (albeit a good one) based off what he was trying to accomplish. I think Roy gives Andy some leverage to get some more solid (older) players down the line if he runs into a jam with his current team.
Steve: Andy gave up too much, of course. Sucks. I was in on the Roy talks, but like I said before...this is just incredible value for Skillz who typically makes the most of his opportunities. Roy will be really really good...but he’s a wing. I think if he’s a PG, you can at least say to yourself that at least this guy can carry me to the necessary 42 wins. Wings don’t have that same impact imo
Ashes: Didn’t like it. I’m sure Roy will be great, but it was just too much. There is no shortage of scorers in the league. I feel like he could have used his assets better and just picked up Finley and some other good pieces without blowing his load at once. I think he’ll be fine though, and Roy should be a stud, even if he doesn’t develop that much more. He may end up having to move Roy though, we’ll see.
Mark: I already touched on Andy above so I won’t really rehash, but I hated it. I think he was going to be able to pull this off without torching himself on fire, but we’ll see. No guarantees now either.
10. In the last two weeks, what is the one trade that you saw and said “WTF, this is horrible for team xyz, how is this even possible?”
PIG: I made an offer to Play today without realizing that he traded Ricky Davis to SAC for Rudy Gay. Didn’t understand that one at all especially with the Bulls being in a prime position to make a run at a Championship. Felt like it was a move backwards to be honest. I don’t know if it was “WTF, this is horrible for the Bulls, how is this even possible?” bad but I just didn’t really understand it all too well.
Steve: The original Allan Houston deal was beyond abysmal. I’m actually annoyed that Houston netted two 1sts...it’s incredibly desperate by Royal, too. And Houston will undoubtedly take another dip and this could be the TC he dies. The Finley trade is pretty bad. I’m not sure how people continue to gift Kobe, but more power to him I suppose.
Ashes: Ugh I don’t remember! I’m just going to assume it’s a Memphis trade! Let me check. Yeah, the Grizzlies/Blazers deal! I don’t know if that’s the worst one, but it’s the first one I found and I hated it for erbes! I think Iggy and his 08 are probably individually more valuable than JO! Whatever erbes, I hope you make it but dang son.
Mark: Awk
11. What is one consensus (or common, doesn't even have to be consensus) BBS take (could be on a player or just a general concept in terms of team building/mindset) that you completely disagree with?
Pig: I think the faster the pace you run is more significant in regard to the amount of fouls you commit more so than trap and press options.
Steve: The “you should’ve gotten more” comment from player x drives me bananas. I’m mainly talking about guys that are older, still good, but have contracts that kind of make them more difficult to move. That comment to me is just ignorant most of the time. The reality of the situation, and I heard Jr say this in the podcast and I wholeheartedly agree with...the player’s value is ultimately determined by what’s being offered (right or wrong). I do think there are some incidences where it’s obviously egregiously bad and no way that player should’ve been traded just for that...but if a player is on the block for a few days, and that’s the best offer you get...and you need to commit to a direction...then should they have really gotten more? I don’t know. That one seems to annoy me.
Ashes: That a team has to rebuild. I don’t think it’s necessary, and I think you can sustain success without it. Not the best of answers, I’ll admit, but I can’t really think of anything else that I would disagree with. We all know stuff like blocks and steals good, rebounds good, turnovers bad. Build a team around those concepts and you usually have success. I think I most disagree with the approach to just full give up on a team, trade it all away for picks, sit on losing seasons, and hope to get a guy that develops quickly. Obviously if your team was already bad to begin with, tanking is fine, but I hate the idea of just full dismantling a winning team and going straight into a 60+ loss season. No thanks!
Mark: What the fuck was I even trying to say here. Another poorly worded question. Hmmm. Maxing out fringe FAs. Of course you max out fringe FAs. Absolutely everyone gets traded, and assets > everything. Get as many as you can no matter what. Eddie Griffin was a good signing!
1. What has been the biggest issue that CY teams have had in fielding a competitive roster with a decent window?
Pig: Different for every team. Let’s just say that the teams that were CY’d didn’t have strong GM’s for all intents and purposes of discussion. Seattles GM was interested in other things outside of fielding a competitive team. Styro wasn’t active. Chipper made bad deals and gave bad contracts. Orlando did not carry the level of FBB knowledge that he needed to be successful.
Activity is the number one denominator. Terrible contracts are number 2. If you start giving out albatross contracts to guys that don’t deserve it to force something you will fail. I also think it’s pretty advantageous to carry a plethora of 1st’s on you for 30-35 year old guys to help you out if need be.
Steve: I think the biggest issue is some of them have jumped the gun a year ahead and have accumulated assets that haven’t helped protect their most important asset (their draft pick). I think, for most, it truly has been jumping the gun. You know, in a way, I can totally relate. I won the Yao Ming sweepstakes. In year 2, I was picking between 9-11 (I can’t remember) and was kind of annoyed by that. So I packaged some assets for C-Webb. Looking back, I HATE that deal now. I should’ve been much more patient when trading for a star that also fits my group and direction. I think the idea of making sure you have good players on your roster supersedes the idea of fit. I think fit is such an important part of how you build a team. Skillz/Habes are some of the best at accomplishing that narrative. The reality of the situation is that sometimes you might not get lucky in lotto to gain a championship window so you just need to be smart, reset, and try it all over again as demoralizing as that concept can truly be.
Ashes: I think it's just been reliance on the draft and youth development then sitting on that for too long. Not everyone can get slam dunks like Chris Paul! I think a lot of CY teams have had rough timing with their moves or decisions to start winning. I think knowing when to hold youth and when to move them is very crucial in FBB, not just for CY teams, but it always seems like CY teams sit a little too long then have to take a lesser deal their last year. It always seems like every team in the conference wants to win when a CY team tries. I hate waiting until the final year to make it. I think it results in a lot of desperation or poor value trades that just leave the franchise bad no matter if they make it or not. Warriors tanked for 3 seasons, won 44 games, and are now back on the tank. Depressing stuff!
Mark: Fear of the Contract Year and moving too quickly as a result. I thought that both Jeff and Manas moved too quickly, albeit it in different ways. Jeff could have tanked through year three. Manas moved too quickly in adding the secondary pieces (Toine), when those types will always be there and should round out your roster, not be there from the start (also makes it less likely that they’ll be an imperfect fit, as Toine became). I think everyone needs to have a little more faith in themselves, and if not in themselves, then have faith in the pace of the league. The deals will be there. Get as many assets as you can. You don’t need to make a deal a week too soon for fear of being left holding the bag. You won’t. We are obsessed with this. People will trade.
(Jeff is definitely making his CY though and took too much shit IMO. He could have been more patient, but people started acting like he had shit on his team, and I don’t think that’s true)
2. What are your thoughts on the value placed on a team’s own picks? Who holds the power in these negotiations, the team with the pick, or the team who wants it back (but is good enough that he doesn’t need it back)?
Pig: It’s almost always contingent on how good the team wanting it back is perceived to be. The pendulum of power will always swing based on that fact. Make sure that your team is competitive before you want to start you rebuild and you will hold the power to an extent.
Steve: Depends on what your team exactly looks like in that manner. We all have pretty good experiences with this. I wasn’t harsh when I owned Jeff’s pick because I didn’t want to hold his pick hostage, and I eventually traded it for Andre Miller. Looking back on that, I should’ve kept it. But I also was being nice and didn’t want to hold his pick hostage...but I should’ve gotten a better PG back in a deal. Through recent experiences, I’m not going to be giving any more favors with a team that wants their pick back.
When I switch the roles around, and Habes had my pick...it was an alright process. Basically was up front and told me he only wanted Billups or Nenad. I told him Nenad would have to be maxed so he wanted one of my interesting 1sts and we eventually settled on one. I think it depends on who you are dealing with, but I think the team that has your pick ultimately controls the value.
Ashes: Well if the team is good enough that he doesn't need the pick back, then it would seem the pick has little value. I've never cared about my own pick. It really depends on the GM though. There are the guys who will tear it all down just to get their picks back, and that's a fine approach. Let's them control their destiny and try to tank the best they can. I've had a few guys over the years reach out to me with my picks, and as long as I don't own my pick, it's basically worthless. I'd say in general, and for me, the team that wants the pick back will have more power in negotiations, assuming they are competent and have a good squad. But it's very clear that for some guys, the opposite is true. I think it's all about philosophies baby!
Mark: Loved my original answer before I fucking refreshed proboards and lost it. Of course it depends on how good the team is, but typically, I don’t think the team that wants their pick back has as much leverage as they want to think. Yes, that team can turn the pick into a late lotto, but that’s in no one’s best interest. Finding a middle ground is the play, and I think we go through the same song and dance every time trying to pretend that one holds the power over the other. We all know you want your pick back, and we also all know that the pick isn’t top 3 unless the guy tanks with it. Fine. These are win win trades and should be treated as such.
3. What has been your favorite part of BBS 2020? Least favorite part?
Pig: For me, I am looking at things in a whole new light and much more in depth than I had ever did a decade ago. Studying individual player shooting volume for example was way outside the scope of the time I wanted to put in 10 years ago. I am having a blast this iteration and trying to be more of a student that in previous years. That’s fun for me.
The least favorite part for me is how limited FBB is. I think we would have much more fun if we tried to figure out the more in-depth program that allows us more flexibility in controlling our teams.
Steve: I feel like I’ve answered this before, but the overall activity and comradery is second to none in this league. It’s what separates this league from probably most. My least favorite part might be sometimes the pace of BBS is too much while i’m at work and i need to get shit done. I’m not working from home currently so it’s not as easy to divert my attention to the league like most.
Ashes: Just everyone getting back together again for this crazy old thing. It’s been a blast and the activity is stellar. Spencer is a beast as usual. In a way COVID brought us all together and made something beautiful! Least favorite? Hmm, that’s tough. Wait, no it isn’t! 5 Day Sims damnit! Get rid of them!!
Mark: The forum. I can’t believe we hit the ground running like this after a decade. I absolutely love sitting on the boards and passing time. Legit valuable during quarantine. My concern is it won’t last once we go back to normal in 2021, but we’ll deal with that when the time comes. For now, it’s amazing.
4. Take over any team in your division, your choice. What would you do if you were that GM today (assume that you’re in the same CY position they are, if that matters, i.e. if you take over Memphis, you’re still in Year 4)
Pig: I’ll take over Atlanta because I am not wild about him trying to tank again, nor do I think he really needs to. For some reason I have Shawn Marion on the team while I am still trying to tank (looking for that deal now).
(Found the deal). Footy tends to make deals where he is going to bring on someone that makes sense for the price if he believes he can flip for more value even if it’s in contrast to his direction. I am not sure he is going to find a taker in Marion at the value that he believes he can. At this point it’s a flip for EXP’s and a Pick (if we are lucky) or we need to start building some talent.
We don’t touch Bynum or Tucker. Wagner, some of these rookie deals need to be shelled out for a PG/SG but preferably a PG. I do that if Marion is on my roster or is not on my roster. If Marion is on my roster I probably marinate on that team with the PG upgrade and I think we can win 42. Go into next season with some bird exps and load up for the long haul the next season. If he is off the roster, I still try to build with a PG acquisition and go into next season with max cap as possible to continue to build my team.
Steve: I’ll take over Brian’s team. I’d look to reset this year. It’s a weak field, I’d make sure all of my guys are RCd and ACd as much as possible...and really try to make it in because he’s not going to be able to tank this year. There are far too many bad teams in the East, I think. If for whatever reason I wasn’t able to reset, then obviously I would need to do what it would take to reset during the CY year. When I look at Brian’s roster, I’m just not a fan. Pierce’s turnovers are prohibiting him from being a superstar in this league. I’m not going to get into the Antoine Walker talk...we all know what he is. Bogut will be a realllllllyyyy nice big. I think, best case for Livingston is a better defensive version of Andre Miller. I always look at can I win championships with my nucleus and I don’t think Brian can do that with the pieces he currently has. So to summarize, reset this year, and start selling some veterans off (Pierce, Walker, etc.) and look to continue to build through the draft.
Ashes: Lakers. Makes me so sad to see what the Lakers became after they had such a legit threat. I’d tear it all down and get my picks back plus other solid youth. Yes this directly conflicts my answer to question 2 but I hate this team that much! If Melo does nothing in TC, I’m going to feel so bad for my pal Nanz. Wishing you the best!
Mark: This is where I refreshed the page trying to go to standings. Fuckin brutal. Anyway, I’ll take over the Lakers. Nanz doesn’t have his pick until 2009 and he doesn’t have any depth, but he does have a very good SL and should still be able to clear 42+ each of the next two seasons. Typically I’d say just blow it up and tank, but I think he can pull off the CY refresh. I’d move Brand, who looks sick with new ratings, for a vet or two on two year deals. Need to maintain cap for 2009. I’d keep Melo at all costs, because he’s going to be used to get a massive package the offseason before tank year 1. And I’d see if Baron and Eddie can be turned into more manageable contracts that act as depth, without harming the ability to win 42. Then in 2009, you tank with clean cap + whatever you get for Melo + your own picks.
5. What are your thoughts on Pacce’s contract?
PIG: As a player, I don’t mind it at all. I think he has intangibles that require a max if you want him on your team. It’s someone I kind of steer away from (In terms of a MAX) because value seems to be all over the place and I am not sure how hard it would be to move it if he stays the same player over the course of 7 years. I would be very worried about potential though. I wouldn’t want him to die in that contract.
Steve: It’s fine (like most of those contracts are) for now. However, do we really think he’s worth that contract once he enters year 4 of it? I don’t think you can make a legitimate argument that he is worth that.
Ashes: Bad contract. Obviously the only way anyone was signing him was with a max, but like the Griffin and Haslem contracts, they are bad. Yeah I only have two examples right now, big whoop! I think all these contracts are manageable by competent GMs, but they still become restricting no matter what. Just my opinion on it. I wouldn’t offer maxes to them, and I would’ve traded all these players their expiring year. Good idea to sign these guys and immediately flip them though.
Mark: I like Pacce. I think he became a bit of a joke because Skillz oversold him. The contract is pretty far below average but as long as he stays about as good as he is then it’s not a complete killer. His stocks are ridiculous.
6. Who is more likely to get CY’d, Andy or Royal?
Pig: Neither. Touched upon Royal in my Power Rankings don’t think he will be CY’d. Probably Andy if I had to choose but I don’t think he will be either.
Steve: Good question. I think for Andy this is the year to squeak in because of how weak the East is. If he doesn’t, then he could be in trouble. Things change quickly. It’s weird, but I have a feeling Royal is going to make it...but when you look at what he has, I don’t see it. I’d guess Royal is the GM most likely to get CY’d.
Ashes: Royal probably. Not sure, they are both in pretty meh positions. I think Andy could get desperate and get enough for Roy to scrape by. Royal will probably be fine to win 42 at some point in the West, but I think his team is a little worse for wear and always like to grab rando old dudes instead of tanking.
Mark: This question is dumb after Royal’s moves, but I would have said Andy regardless. Andy is a great guy and a good GM. He was dealt a shitty hand. But even with that hand, I honestly hate what he’s done. Accumulate as many assets as possible, tank in 06 and 08, clear the CY, and then reset the rebuild in your own image. I could see him scraping by one of these seasons but it will be tough.
7. Put your Moneyball hat on. What is the most inefficiently priced asset in BBS?
Pig: I think sole shot blockers become inefficient at a certain price point. I don’t think I would be putting Max contract’s on guys who put up 10-10 with 2.5-3BPG.
Steve: I think an inefficient asset is players getting to their 3rd contract. We actually haven’t seen too much of that because the league is only like 6 years young...but the hard cap being set at only $78M is really going to make teams stray away from that 3rd contract type player. Alonzo Mourning is kind of a 3rd contract guy, and those deals get ugly fast. In my other league, it doesn’t matter because there is no hard cap but a luxury tax so the GMs who are active can pay that off...but here? This will be incredibly problematic and something I’ll look to stay away from. I truly believe that in maybe 10 seasons or even 5...guys like Nenad will not be maxed.
Ashes: Yes. Or no. What were you on when you made this question?? Even with the further clarification, I don’t really know what to make of this. People value stuff too high. I’m going with that.
Mark: My original wording on this question was so bad. That’s what Ashes is yammering about above. I’d say the most inefficiently priced asset is any player that the forum mob has deemed shitty but isn’t actually shitty. Groupthink. We hated Andre Iguodala to the point where his value cratered and that was stupid the whole time IMO. Note that I thought this prior to today too fwiw… awk
8. Take away LeBron. If the creation draft was today, who would go 1?
Pig: Kobe. Best player in the league and in his 20’s. Instantly makes any team a title contender from a creation draft standpoint.
Steve: Chris Paul. PG is the most important position in FBB and Paul is 20 years old and already flashed moments of brilliance in his rookie campaign. He’s on another level. Kind of disappointing that Wade isn’t the answer here, but maybe he still has some potential left to fix some of his flaws.
Ashes: Kobe. Maybe Paul after this TC. I think I’d go with some kind of order like LeBron, Kobe, KG, Paul, Duncan. I don’t know for sure I never really put much thought into ranking them, I’m not out there dropping propaganda like Skillz. I’m just going to say Kobe because he is the man.
Mark: Paul. I wouldn’t trade Paul straight up for anyone in BBS other than LeBron.
9. What were your thoughts on the Brandon Roy trade?
Pig: Roy’s a good haul, but I think it severely deprived Andy of assets to deal for other players. I would of liked him to go after a couple players and help form out a strong team rather than go for a rookie (albeit a good one) based off what he was trying to accomplish. I think Roy gives Andy some leverage to get some more solid (older) players down the line if he runs into a jam with his current team.
Steve: Andy gave up too much, of course. Sucks. I was in on the Roy talks, but like I said before...this is just incredible value for Skillz who typically makes the most of his opportunities. Roy will be really really good...but he’s a wing. I think if he’s a PG, you can at least say to yourself that at least this guy can carry me to the necessary 42 wins. Wings don’t have that same impact imo
Ashes: Didn’t like it. I’m sure Roy will be great, but it was just too much. There is no shortage of scorers in the league. I feel like he could have used his assets better and just picked up Finley and some other good pieces without blowing his load at once. I think he’ll be fine though, and Roy should be a stud, even if he doesn’t develop that much more. He may end up having to move Roy though, we’ll see.
Mark: I already touched on Andy above so I won’t really rehash, but I hated it. I think he was going to be able to pull this off without torching himself on fire, but we’ll see. No guarantees now either.
10. In the last two weeks, what is the one trade that you saw and said “WTF, this is horrible for team xyz, how is this even possible?”
PIG: I made an offer to Play today without realizing that he traded Ricky Davis to SAC for Rudy Gay. Didn’t understand that one at all especially with the Bulls being in a prime position to make a run at a Championship. Felt like it was a move backwards to be honest. I don’t know if it was “WTF, this is horrible for the Bulls, how is this even possible?” bad but I just didn’t really understand it all too well.
Steve: The original Allan Houston deal was beyond abysmal. I’m actually annoyed that Houston netted two 1sts...it’s incredibly desperate by Royal, too. And Houston will undoubtedly take another dip and this could be the TC he dies. The Finley trade is pretty bad. I’m not sure how people continue to gift Kobe, but more power to him I suppose.
Ashes: Ugh I don’t remember! I’m just going to assume it’s a Memphis trade! Let me check. Yeah, the Grizzlies/Blazers deal! I don’t know if that’s the worst one, but it’s the first one I found and I hated it for erbes! I think Iggy and his 08 are probably individually more valuable than JO! Whatever erbes, I hope you make it but dang son.
Mark: Awk
11. What is one consensus (or common, doesn't even have to be consensus) BBS take (could be on a player or just a general concept in terms of team building/mindset) that you completely disagree with?
Pig: I think the faster the pace you run is more significant in regard to the amount of fouls you commit more so than trap and press options.
Steve: The “you should’ve gotten more” comment from player x drives me bananas. I’m mainly talking about guys that are older, still good, but have contracts that kind of make them more difficult to move. That comment to me is just ignorant most of the time. The reality of the situation, and I heard Jr say this in the podcast and I wholeheartedly agree with...the player’s value is ultimately determined by what’s being offered (right or wrong). I do think there are some incidences where it’s obviously egregiously bad and no way that player should’ve been traded just for that...but if a player is on the block for a few days, and that’s the best offer you get...and you need to commit to a direction...then should they have really gotten more? I don’t know. That one seems to annoy me.
Ashes: That a team has to rebuild. I don’t think it’s necessary, and I think you can sustain success without it. Not the best of answers, I’ll admit, but I can’t really think of anything else that I would disagree with. We all know stuff like blocks and steals good, rebounds good, turnovers bad. Build a team around those concepts and you usually have success. I think I most disagree with the approach to just full give up on a team, trade it all away for picks, sit on losing seasons, and hope to get a guy that develops quickly. Obviously if your team was already bad to begin with, tanking is fine, but I hate the idea of just full dismantling a winning team and going straight into a 60+ loss season. No thanks!
Mark: What the fuck was I even trying to say here. Another poorly worded question. Hmmm. Maxing out fringe FAs. Of course you max out fringe FAs. Absolutely everyone gets traded, and assets > everything. Get as many as you can no matter what. Eddie Griffin was a good signing!
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