Post by nybombers3 on Oct 9, 2020 13:56:01 GMT -8
What if I told you one pick can have an affect on two different franchises.
In 2007, Steve Francis helped finish off the Dallas Mavericks and not only hoisted his first BBS title but along with that, hoisted the finals MVP. At the same time, the Atlanta Hawks made the playoffs and won 50 games for the first time in franchise history. It’s been a long journey for both, but the upswing has reached a new height never seen before by both. With the 19th pick of the 1st round, the Atlanta Hawks select Steve Francis. With starting ratings of B B B C C A, the future looked solid for both the Hawks and Francis himself yet for many, it was considered one of the worst picks in the first round. The downhill trip began during the first training camp when Francis had a subpar TC, pretty much co-signing what the masses were saying. While the season went ok for him (22.7 ppg, 7.5 apg, 6.5 rpg along with an all-league 2nd team and all-defensive team acknowledgment, the damage really came with his turnovers. Averaging almost 4 tpg, watching your starting PG give up the ball so much takes a toll. For the next two seasons, Francis’ stats went down almost everywhere but turnovers. One of the biggest takes about how Francis’ future is when our commish openly stated “But ya he wasn’t gonna be good, especially at PG. I was hoping Francis and Marbs would get camped and moved to SG.” A few days later, with FA looming a major decision had to be made by the Hawks franchise. Do they max out Francis? Do they let him go? How can they if they are in their CY? Speaking of the Hawks, their record decreased every season (32 to 29 to 24) before entering their CY. They did have the 3rd projected pick in one of the biggest drafts we will have in BBS but had agreed to trade it in a deal for Ray Allen. While Ray Allen was a great scorer and had a great season for the Hawks that year, it’s hard to gauge the value that the Hawks ended up moving at the time and what was available. Still, armed with Ray Allen now, it was time to see if they can bring back some key FA’s, including Francis.
June 15th came. Francis inked a 6-year, 90 Mil deal with the 76ers. In one shot, the Hawks chances of tackling their CY took a hit and the 76ers might have hurt their own franchise by inking Francis to such a major contract. Francis spent the next three seasons with the 76ers and while he was groomed to eventually be a 2 guard, it never quite worked. Francis spent his first season in Philly as the starting 2 guard but the next 2 seasons he was shuffled between the starting lineup and bench. The 76ers did win 45, 47 and 45 games. Shortly into the 4th season, On August 8th, Francis was traded to the Magic in a deal for Marbury/Tyrus Thomas.
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3302/magic-76ers
A few days later, Francis was shipped out again. On August 12, Francis was sent to Dallas in the Al Jeff/JC trade
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3365/magic-mavs
3 days later, Francis was on the move once more
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3395/cavs-mavs
While the deal was about moving KG to Dallas, Cleveland had an interest in bringing in Francis to try him out. As one GM put it “Don’t love that svedda has to take the Francis contract tho”. At least now Francis had a GM that wanted to test out his skills.
Back in Atlanta, fresh off having their GM CY’d, the Hawks had to bring in a new GM. With a few teams available during this time, the former Magic assistant GM footy choose the Hawks. I was able to catch up with footy and ask him a few questions as far as what his thought process was during this time.
How did you feel about the moves the Magic made while you were the assistant?
Yeah it was an interesting experience to say the least. At the time the Magic's GM, Break, was new to FBB so I offered to come aboard and help him with DC's, trade negotiations and the like while I waited for a team on the Wait list.
Fair to say early on it became apparent it was going to be a shitshow. Break was very eager to trade and had no concept on the value of Free Agency, first round picks etc. and would often just make trades without any consultation that were significantly one sided against him yet I was fingered as the one to blame.
A few good examples are Craig Smith trade where Break took on a contract from Ashes so that Ashes would have max cap room in the first Free Agency period. Break received no compensation. I had no idea about that trade until it was posted.
Similarly, the Eddie Griffin/Rashard Lewis trade where Sargo & I were negotiating, and Break jumped in to accept a typically terrible offer that Sargo held him too.
We had a subsequent similar experience with Skillz where Break agreed via PM, but I stopped it before it was posted. Hence, I think Skillz dislike from me grew from there. Funny that he thinks I offer one sided deals yet I've never seen a GM offer worse deals in my life than he.
After about a season of half of the above, I tried to impress upon Break to listen to the advice I was giving him when it came to trades, FA Bids, drafting etc. and it was all to no good. I gave up trying to help him and decided I would just focus on writing my Power polls to prove my worth to the league and camp up any players we did receive.
To be honest I was disappointed by Break. He failed to listen, was impatient and highly irrational- all the things that get you CY'd in this league.
Yet, I wanted to see him make CY as I felt his team had the talent and we had put the work in to build a solid squad that was camped to the hilt. Unfortunately, it wasn't too be.
How did you feel and what were your plans when you took over?
After the 3 tankateers were CY'd, Spence offered me the Magic or Hawks and we agreed it would be best if I didn't take the Magic. At the time the Magic had a prime Allen Iverson, their 1sts (from memory), had missed CY by 2 games and were in a much better position than the Hawks. Spence & I felt it would be a bad look even though for the better part of Breaks CY I was essentially an article writer and shitposter.
I took over the Hawks and their pick landed number 2 in lotto- however we didn't own that first or any of the next two.
The roster contained Ray Allen & Glenn Robinson and the cupboard was very bare. I knew it would be a challenge.
My first hope was to get my firsts back and that proved an ordeal complicated by some classic Hue-ing by Svedda and Game but eventually we got there. I spent two seasons with the league’s worst team with the league's worst record and dropped to fourth in both lotto's. Missing out on both Chris Paul and Brandon Roy.
However, I was able to collect assets, maintain cap flexibility and drafted well. I think I've been an underrated drafter. Outside of the lottery I've drafted Eddie Griffin (pick 22), Steven Hunter (24) JJ Barea (16) & Gustavo Ayon (23). All starting pieces picked late.
You were made gm around the same time as the magic and sonics were. If you can go back would you switch and why/ why not?
I wouldn't have taken the Magic as above I think it's a bad look and I certainly didn't want people to think I was looking to get Break fired or sabotaging his CY year-which was levelled at me during his CY year which I found weird.
From memory, the Sonics were like the Hawks. Each team didn't own any of their future firsts, had bad contracts and no young talent. I even messaged Mark and said 'Mate, this is going to be a challenge for both of us!'
Funnily enough in that first season, the Sonics & Hawks had the equal worst record in the league but FBB gave the Sonics the #1 projected and Hawks #2. In the second round it was reversed.
Unfortunately, the lotto gods struck and #1 Projected became the number 1 pick while #2 projected became pick 4.
I should have chosen the Sonics!
Nah, I love the Hawks, I think they were my first ever FBB franchise back in NBN by WillC so it's been nice though a little more FBB luck would be appreciated HeavyReign!
The Hawks were armed with a plan but without draft picks, things would not be easy for the Hawks.
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/2157/raptors-hawks
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/2158/suns-hawks
With these two trades, while adding in some controversy, allowed the Hawks to acquire their 05 1st and 06 1st along with acquiring a few more assets in trades for Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson. Still, the Hawks did not have their own 04 1st’s and had to watch as the Cavs kept it and selected Andre Iguodala with the selection. The Hawks armed with their picks going forward were able to tank. While the lotto gods were never kind to the Hawks (dropping from projected to actual pick both times) they selected both Andrew Bynum and PJ Tucker as their pieces. The Hawks were now entering their CY and had to make moves.
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3599/hawks-kings
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3585/hawks-knicks
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3469/knicks-hawks-deal-after-por
Just a few of the moves here but the Hawks were able to put together a team around PJ Tucker and Andrew Bynum. While not every move has payed off as expected, it’s hard to say footy hasn’t changed the dynamic of the Hawks franchise. The Hawks have gone from 7 straight seasons under 35 wins to 2 straight 50-win seasons with potentially a 3rd on the way. As for the future, I asked footy not only what his plans were but what are his thoughts on his naysayers:
What's your plans going forward? What type of players do you want to target?
Given where we started, I am pleased where we are today. My squad is youthful, talented and flexible. For the first time in 6 seasons, we control our future and I have no CY concerns. I'd like to add a couple of pieces and if that happens at the deadline great! If not, I have enough cap room for two MAX FA's and might even be able to land Roy after all.
If I strike out, well I own my firsts, a studly young big man (Bynum is still only 22) and my man Ricky!
Talk to me about the criticism raised against you. Is it fair or unwarranted?
They are fucking idiots.
Pretty clear I'm a good GM and have built a strong squad despite a shithouse starting position, several setbacks and I find that the criticism is coming from the same GM's who get offended if you say no to a deal. I think these GM's don't really understand the context or position of my team despite the many reasons they may give you.
Baiting me into a trade isn't going to make me want to do a deal anymore.
While many may not agree with his methods, the Hawks franchise has been placed in a better place now under footy.
As for Francis, now landing in Cleveland allowed him to be placed back at PG and he started to show signs as to why he was drafted so high. One of the biggest things that Francis was able to do was keep his turnovers below 3 during his tenure in Cleveland in 05. With the 06-season starting, Francis was given the nod as the starting PG for the Cavs and while things were going well with Francis, not much was thought of them. The Cavs were a proud franchise who had two 60-win seasons under their belt, a title not to long ago and are one of the only teams to not sport a losing record. The 06 season was all about testing and experimenting, led by Al Jeff. The Cavs finished with a 47-35 record, sneaking into the playoffs with their lowest win total in franchise history. Francis himself had to have been happy with his season, not only putting up 17 ppg, 9 apg and 5 rpg with 2 spg but limiting his turnovers to a low 3. It was progress in the right direction for Francis. The 07 season would be even better for Francis. Francis came into training camp ready and it showed, sporting easily his best season with averages of 23 ppg, 9 apg and 6 rpg while averaging 2.4 spg along with 2.4 tpg. The Cavs as a team had a solid bounce back year with a record of 53-29. The consensus was that the winner of the West would end up winning the whole thing but as we’ve learned with FBB, things can also go differently, especially when a team had a very capable PG. In the finals against the loaded Mavs team, the biggest advantage the Cavs had was at PG and they were able to take advantage. It was a big win for the Cavs, and especially Francis, who had been downplayed his whole BBS career and he finally proved all his naysayers wrong. Francis was not only a BBS champion, but he also took home finals MVP. Since then, Francis career has been left stagnant but for one season, nobody can take away that Francis lived up to the hype of being a 1st round selection in the creation draft.
Both the Hawks and Steve Francis himself have been able to find the success separately that they once hoped to find together. Should be interesting to see if the Hawks can continue climbing the ranks and win a title soon enough.
In 2007, Steve Francis helped finish off the Dallas Mavericks and not only hoisted his first BBS title but along with that, hoisted the finals MVP. At the same time, the Atlanta Hawks made the playoffs and won 50 games for the first time in franchise history. It’s been a long journey for both, but the upswing has reached a new height never seen before by both. With the 19th pick of the 1st round, the Atlanta Hawks select Steve Francis. With starting ratings of B B B C C A, the future looked solid for both the Hawks and Francis himself yet for many, it was considered one of the worst picks in the first round. The downhill trip began during the first training camp when Francis had a subpar TC, pretty much co-signing what the masses were saying. While the season went ok for him (22.7 ppg, 7.5 apg, 6.5 rpg along with an all-league 2nd team and all-defensive team acknowledgment, the damage really came with his turnovers. Averaging almost 4 tpg, watching your starting PG give up the ball so much takes a toll. For the next two seasons, Francis’ stats went down almost everywhere but turnovers. One of the biggest takes about how Francis’ future is when our commish openly stated “But ya he wasn’t gonna be good, especially at PG. I was hoping Francis and Marbs would get camped and moved to SG.” A few days later, with FA looming a major decision had to be made by the Hawks franchise. Do they max out Francis? Do they let him go? How can they if they are in their CY? Speaking of the Hawks, their record decreased every season (32 to 29 to 24) before entering their CY. They did have the 3rd projected pick in one of the biggest drafts we will have in BBS but had agreed to trade it in a deal for Ray Allen. While Ray Allen was a great scorer and had a great season for the Hawks that year, it’s hard to gauge the value that the Hawks ended up moving at the time and what was available. Still, armed with Ray Allen now, it was time to see if they can bring back some key FA’s, including Francis.
June 15th came. Francis inked a 6-year, 90 Mil deal with the 76ers. In one shot, the Hawks chances of tackling their CY took a hit and the 76ers might have hurt their own franchise by inking Francis to such a major contract. Francis spent the next three seasons with the 76ers and while he was groomed to eventually be a 2 guard, it never quite worked. Francis spent his first season in Philly as the starting 2 guard but the next 2 seasons he was shuffled between the starting lineup and bench. The 76ers did win 45, 47 and 45 games. Shortly into the 4th season, On August 8th, Francis was traded to the Magic in a deal for Marbury/Tyrus Thomas.
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3302/magic-76ers
A few days later, Francis was shipped out again. On August 12, Francis was sent to Dallas in the Al Jeff/JC trade
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3365/magic-mavs
3 days later, Francis was on the move once more
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3395/cavs-mavs
While the deal was about moving KG to Dallas, Cleveland had an interest in bringing in Francis to try him out. As one GM put it “Don’t love that svedda has to take the Francis contract tho”. At least now Francis had a GM that wanted to test out his skills.
Back in Atlanta, fresh off having their GM CY’d, the Hawks had to bring in a new GM. With a few teams available during this time, the former Magic assistant GM footy choose the Hawks. I was able to catch up with footy and ask him a few questions as far as what his thought process was during this time.
How did you feel about the moves the Magic made while you were the assistant?
Yeah it was an interesting experience to say the least. At the time the Magic's GM, Break, was new to FBB so I offered to come aboard and help him with DC's, trade negotiations and the like while I waited for a team on the Wait list.
Fair to say early on it became apparent it was going to be a shitshow. Break was very eager to trade and had no concept on the value of Free Agency, first round picks etc. and would often just make trades without any consultation that were significantly one sided against him yet I was fingered as the one to blame.
A few good examples are Craig Smith trade where Break took on a contract from Ashes so that Ashes would have max cap room in the first Free Agency period. Break received no compensation. I had no idea about that trade until it was posted.
Similarly, the Eddie Griffin/Rashard Lewis trade where Sargo & I were negotiating, and Break jumped in to accept a typically terrible offer that Sargo held him too.
We had a subsequent similar experience with Skillz where Break agreed via PM, but I stopped it before it was posted. Hence, I think Skillz dislike from me grew from there. Funny that he thinks I offer one sided deals yet I've never seen a GM offer worse deals in my life than he.
After about a season of half of the above, I tried to impress upon Break to listen to the advice I was giving him when it came to trades, FA Bids, drafting etc. and it was all to no good. I gave up trying to help him and decided I would just focus on writing my Power polls to prove my worth to the league and camp up any players we did receive.
To be honest I was disappointed by Break. He failed to listen, was impatient and highly irrational- all the things that get you CY'd in this league.
Yet, I wanted to see him make CY as I felt his team had the talent and we had put the work in to build a solid squad that was camped to the hilt. Unfortunately, it wasn't too be.
How did you feel and what were your plans when you took over?
After the 3 tankateers were CY'd, Spence offered me the Magic or Hawks and we agreed it would be best if I didn't take the Magic. At the time the Magic had a prime Allen Iverson, their 1sts (from memory), had missed CY by 2 games and were in a much better position than the Hawks. Spence & I felt it would be a bad look even though for the better part of Breaks CY I was essentially an article writer and shitposter.
I took over the Hawks and their pick landed number 2 in lotto- however we didn't own that first or any of the next two.
The roster contained Ray Allen & Glenn Robinson and the cupboard was very bare. I knew it would be a challenge.
My first hope was to get my firsts back and that proved an ordeal complicated by some classic Hue-ing by Svedda and Game but eventually we got there. I spent two seasons with the league’s worst team with the league's worst record and dropped to fourth in both lotto's. Missing out on both Chris Paul and Brandon Roy.
However, I was able to collect assets, maintain cap flexibility and drafted well. I think I've been an underrated drafter. Outside of the lottery I've drafted Eddie Griffin (pick 22), Steven Hunter (24) JJ Barea (16) & Gustavo Ayon (23). All starting pieces picked late.
You were made gm around the same time as the magic and sonics were. If you can go back would you switch and why/ why not?
I wouldn't have taken the Magic as above I think it's a bad look and I certainly didn't want people to think I was looking to get Break fired or sabotaging his CY year-which was levelled at me during his CY year which I found weird.
From memory, the Sonics were like the Hawks. Each team didn't own any of their future firsts, had bad contracts and no young talent. I even messaged Mark and said 'Mate, this is going to be a challenge for both of us!'
Funnily enough in that first season, the Sonics & Hawks had the equal worst record in the league but FBB gave the Sonics the #1 projected and Hawks #2. In the second round it was reversed.
Unfortunately, the lotto gods struck and #1 Projected became the number 1 pick while #2 projected became pick 4.
I should have chosen the Sonics!
Nah, I love the Hawks, I think they were my first ever FBB franchise back in NBN by WillC so it's been nice though a little more FBB luck would be appreciated HeavyReign!
The Hawks were armed with a plan but without draft picks, things would not be easy for the Hawks.
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/2157/raptors-hawks
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/2158/suns-hawks
With these two trades, while adding in some controversy, allowed the Hawks to acquire their 05 1st and 06 1st along with acquiring a few more assets in trades for Ray Allen and Glenn Robinson. Still, the Hawks did not have their own 04 1st’s and had to watch as the Cavs kept it and selected Andre Iguodala with the selection. The Hawks armed with their picks going forward were able to tank. While the lotto gods were never kind to the Hawks (dropping from projected to actual pick both times) they selected both Andrew Bynum and PJ Tucker as their pieces. The Hawks were now entering their CY and had to make moves.
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3599/hawks-kings
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3585/hawks-knicks
bbs2020.proboards.com/thread/3469/knicks-hawks-deal-after-por
Just a few of the moves here but the Hawks were able to put together a team around PJ Tucker and Andrew Bynum. While not every move has payed off as expected, it’s hard to say footy hasn’t changed the dynamic of the Hawks franchise. The Hawks have gone from 7 straight seasons under 35 wins to 2 straight 50-win seasons with potentially a 3rd on the way. As for the future, I asked footy not only what his plans were but what are his thoughts on his naysayers:
What's your plans going forward? What type of players do you want to target?
Given where we started, I am pleased where we are today. My squad is youthful, talented and flexible. For the first time in 6 seasons, we control our future and I have no CY concerns. I'd like to add a couple of pieces and if that happens at the deadline great! If not, I have enough cap room for two MAX FA's and might even be able to land Roy after all.
If I strike out, well I own my firsts, a studly young big man (Bynum is still only 22) and my man Ricky!
Talk to me about the criticism raised against you. Is it fair or unwarranted?
They are fucking idiots.
Pretty clear I'm a good GM and have built a strong squad despite a shithouse starting position, several setbacks and I find that the criticism is coming from the same GM's who get offended if you say no to a deal. I think these GM's don't really understand the context or position of my team despite the many reasons they may give you.
Baiting me into a trade isn't going to make me want to do a deal anymore.
While many may not agree with his methods, the Hawks franchise has been placed in a better place now under footy.
As for Francis, now landing in Cleveland allowed him to be placed back at PG and he started to show signs as to why he was drafted so high. One of the biggest things that Francis was able to do was keep his turnovers below 3 during his tenure in Cleveland in 05. With the 06-season starting, Francis was given the nod as the starting PG for the Cavs and while things were going well with Francis, not much was thought of them. The Cavs were a proud franchise who had two 60-win seasons under their belt, a title not to long ago and are one of the only teams to not sport a losing record. The 06 season was all about testing and experimenting, led by Al Jeff. The Cavs finished with a 47-35 record, sneaking into the playoffs with their lowest win total in franchise history. Francis himself had to have been happy with his season, not only putting up 17 ppg, 9 apg and 5 rpg with 2 spg but limiting his turnovers to a low 3. It was progress in the right direction for Francis. The 07 season would be even better for Francis. Francis came into training camp ready and it showed, sporting easily his best season with averages of 23 ppg, 9 apg and 6 rpg while averaging 2.4 spg along with 2.4 tpg. The Cavs as a team had a solid bounce back year with a record of 53-29. The consensus was that the winner of the West would end up winning the whole thing but as we’ve learned with FBB, things can also go differently, especially when a team had a very capable PG. In the finals against the loaded Mavs team, the biggest advantage the Cavs had was at PG and they were able to take advantage. It was a big win for the Cavs, and especially Francis, who had been downplayed his whole BBS career and he finally proved all his naysayers wrong. Francis was not only a BBS champion, but he also took home finals MVP. Since then, Francis career has been left stagnant but for one season, nobody can take away that Francis lived up to the hype of being a 1st round selection in the creation draft.
Both the Hawks and Steve Francis himself have been able to find the success separately that they once hoped to find together. Should be interesting to see if the Hawks can continue climbing the ranks and win a title soon enough.
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